scalarparty: Silicon Batteries, anyone?

scalarparty (

scalarparty) wrote,
@ 2006-01-04 10:41:00

Entry tags:

!!, evs, i want one!!!

Silicon Batteries, anyone?
Move over Lead Acid Battery, here's a new and powerful performer from China!
emax
The Chinese company Guineng, has developed a very interesting non-polluting battery based on an electrolyte of liquid low sodium silicate compound. Not only can the electrolites be used, they say, as fertilizer after being replaced, but the batteries pack a punch! Obviously superior to Lead Acid Batteries, they compare pretty much to NiCads as far as energy density (52Wh/Kg), but unlike NiCads, they can be recharged in 2-3 hours (witout fancy-pants pulse charging) as opposed to NiCad's 16 hours. According to Guineng, this brand new neutral electrolyte does not corrode the electrodes, which makes it possible to recycle the electrodes after the battery is properly disposed of. The disposed electrolyte, in the state of semi-solid grains, is a high quality fertilizer rather than soil pollutant. The factory is rated as Factory of Environment Friendliness by the relevant environment protection authority for its contribution to the commitment of green environment protection. And even cooler than that, you can already get one! See, that scooter up there, the e-max classic, is available NOW with these new silicon batteries! E-Max is pretty stoked about this! On their website, they have a great table that shows just how much better these batteries can be. Price, power, recyclability and less toxic materials makes em want an EMax more than ever before....

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	keeki_grrrl 2006-01-04 05:07 pm UTC (link)
	wow i love yor posts, so much tekno-informative overloading -mation how do u know about all of this,?i wouldnt know where to start to learn about suchness, (Reply to this)(Thread)

	scalarparty 2006-01-04 05:18 pm UTC (link)
	aw thanks Beka-- how?? i'd like to think i do with this infoness what you do with wordness... (Reply to this)(Parent)

trippedbreaker
2006-01-04 05:40 pm UTC (link)

As is typical of comparative data provided by battery manufacturers, the data for other battery types is a bit skewed here. First, it turns out that nickel cadmium doesn't really offer that much more energy density than lead acid. I discovered this personally when figuring the necessary NiCad pack size for the Ohmbre project which I had originally intended to be NiCad powered. It can be a little higher, especially in efficiency-oriented cells, but not much. Mine were power-oriented cells, so were actually very close to the energy density of lead-acid. Second, large-format Nicads can indeed be charged very quickly; almost as quickly as they can be discharged -- if you are careful to mind the cell temperature in the process, and have intelligent SOC monitoring, not just looking at the charge voltage. Thermal runaway is even more of a problem here than lead acid.

The benefit Nicad does provide is cycle life -- their ">1000 cycles" doesn't adequately represent the case. Nicads, properly cared for, can last nearly forever. The electrolyte (dirt cheap KOH 30% aqueous) can be replaced, rejuvenating the batteries. This is all for the same reason as with these sodium silicate batteries -- the electrolyte functions as an electron transport, not an ion transport. Plate material stays put. Given this, I'm actually surprised that they claim a life of only 500 cycles for their chemistry.

I think the bottom line is that this is a stepping stone. Maybe it's marginally better than lead acid; I won't disagree it's an interesting development. But in the end, the answer for now is lithium ion. The only thing it has going against it is price. And that, with power tool manufacturers and hybrid automobile manufacturers ramping up production all over the world, is something I expect to quickly change.

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trippedbreaker
2006-01-04 05:47 pm UTC (link)

And finally, what they don't mention (and what I forgot to mention) :o) is *power density* (watts per cm^3) and *specific power* (gravimetric density, watts per kg).

In terms of volumetric power density, nothing beats AGM lead acid, except for the exotic lithium polymer stuff the government is buying from some associates of mine for $1k per cell. I wonder how strong these "silicone" (lol) batteries are, and why they're not disclosing these specs.

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scalarparty
2006-01-04 06:03 pm UTC (link)

well first off Chris-- i trust you when it comes to this area... and as well when reading your 1st post, i was thinking exactly what you said in the second... (slighly different, i was thinking of HydroQuebec's Li-Poly Batts, but same deal... yeah those kick butt, and all i know is I'm not a huge fan of Lead Acid ((back a million years ago i had the rights to an electric scooter and worked very hard at finding a C2Cish battery... even though now Bobbies in the UK use the scoots, they are still lead acid--- and the best lead acid recycler i found tl dme (with a straight face) that when recycling the batteries, the lead goes into new batteries, the plastic> new containers, and the acid into women's makeup which totally grossed me out!))

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trippedbreaker
2006-01-04 08:53 pm UTC (link)

Yep, sulphuric acid is about the last thing you'd think of smearing on to hide those wrinkles :o)

Unfortunately at the moment I have to be a fan of lead acid, because I have very little choice otherwise. The NiCads I was trying to use were Marathon BB600 aircraft cells, BB600 being a military spec for which 3 companies I know of (GE, Marathon, and Saft) make a conforming product. The ones I bought were Saft cells (approximately a ton of them) hoping they'd be similar. They actually rocked, but not quite as much as Marathons, which are a lot harder to find. I could only get 1000 amps out without sagging the voltage far too low to be useful. Supposedly the Marathons are good for 2500A and beyond. (The BB600 spec calls for 750A, so both products obviously go way beyond what's required).

So anyway, I'm back to lead... Which kinda sucks, because I'll be replacing the pack in a couple years. And when it gets cold, I'll have less power (unlike Nicads which keep on rockin' and don't mind chillin' out).

Of course, high-power lithium ion and lithium polymer are going to change all of this.

Until then the good news is that lead acid batteries are indeed one of the world's great recycling success stories, along with aluminum cans. Almost all (97% or so) batteries that you see on store shelves are constructed from recycled material -- plastics, lead plates, etc. And especially with EVs, you'd be crazy to throw them away. There's way too much core value in a pack of 15-30 big batteries. A couple hundred bucks' worth sometimes.

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	scalarparty 2006-01-05 01:23 pm UTC (link)
	true true they are, at the moment, much more recyclable. then again i also liked what these guys were doing with used cell-phone batteries* (won't work for your truck-- i suspect) *ok, it's cellophone batteries and solar panels... (Reply to this)(Parent)

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